View Full Version : Dutchman/Kapka Sno-Park Updates
DUTCHMAN SNOW PARK IS SLATED TO BE CONVERTED TO NON MOTORIZED USE
THIS YEAR. WE NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THIS.
Please forward to everyone you know!
As we speak a proposal for a new snow park (Kapka Butte) is in the works. OSSA and Moon Country Snowmobile Club Presidents have been working on this since 2004. The only draw back to this project is that it includes the Loss of Dutchman Snow Park for all motorized use. This will stop all early and late season riding in the Mount Bachelor area. Also consider the impact to Elk Lake Resort and all the other businesses that support Off Highway Motorized Vehicles. (Gas, Parts, Restaurants, Motels) just to name a few.
The environmental people (Wild Wilderness and the Sierra Club just to name two) are working very hard to close down the entire forest to motorized vehicles. They are after 100% of Tumalo Mountain as we speak. If they get Dutchman Snow Park then Tumalo Mountain is just a simple set away. We have given them half of Tumalo Mountain, the Sledding area at Wanoga Snow Park, and divided up Dutchman Flats into little roads to avoid as many conflicts as possible.
According to the wilderness people: Definition: (Conflict) A conflict is any sound, site or even just seeing the tracks of someone or something that is not using the same mode of transportation as you are. When reviewing documents you will see hundreds of complaints filed using the term "Conflict" These people do not have a problem writing false reports or producing adjusted photos or what ever it takes to accomplish their goals. They are greedy people who never learned how to share.
As Winter Users of the forest we have given in every year to some concession to try to satisfy these extremist groups. There is no satisfying these people. They want it all their way and believe they are the only ones who should be allowed into the forest until one of them gets hurt or lost. If you look at the Snow Parks, all the Snowmobile parks are Mixed Use parks. We welcome cross country skiers, snow shoers, dogs and dog sleds, hikers, sleders, and even environmental extremists. Now if you look at the other snow parks they are NON MOTORIZED very specific use parks. We Share they don't.
We all have to write emails to Marv Lang with the Forest Service and to Senator Wyden's Office and let the know we will not stand for the loss of Dutchman Snow Park. Please contact anyone you know who uses the forest (Public Lands) and get them involved. If you have never gotten involved before now is the time to start. Once Dutchman is gone Bend will become just another second rate riding and recreation area for the people who put the least money back into the community.
Please Get Involved today and be part of the solution.
Forest Service Contact (approved by Marv Lang)
Marv Lang
melang@fs.fed.us
Senator Wyden's Office (web site contact form) Don't forget to remind Wyden you are a "VOTER"
http://www.wyden.senate.gov/contact
Sites to check out:
http://www.snowest.com/news/display.cfm?ID=1805
Kapka MAP
http://www.fs.fed.us./r6/centraloregon/projects/units/bendrock/kapksno-elksnomo/KapkaButte_snopark_11x17.pdf
2006 Scoping Letter
http://www.fs.fed.us./r6/centraloregon/projects/units/bendrock/kapksno-elksnomo/scoping%20letter%20snoparkandtrail.pdf
http://www.fs.fed.us./r6/centraloregon/projects/units/bendrock/kapksno-elksnomo/index.shtml
This will be the first of many letters to help keep everyone informed about issues we are working on behind the seines. Your help will be imperative to keep our area open to all users.
Regarding all the recent developments surrounding the proposed Kapka Butte Sno-Park, the Moon Country Board of Directors wishes to thank all those who have gotten involved to pursue this development in a way that will best suit ALL of the recreationalists using the forest today.
Staying abreast of the processes involved with forest use issues has become almost a full time job. Moon Country has established a committee solely for the purpose of staying on top of legal issues involving all motorized areas around Mount Bachelor. The chairman for this committee will be looking for a few people who would be willing to help out with day to day issues and be a part of this information exchange team. Club and non-club people are welcome.
The building of Kapka Butte Sno-park has many ramifications that will affect a large portion of the winter recreationalists in the Central Oregon area. One of the largest entities affected is Elk Lake Lodge. The proposal, as it stands right now, would lead to the closing of the Dutchman Sno-park to snowmobile parking with possible loss of accessibility to the high country and Century Drive leading to Elk Lake Lodge. This would be devastating to this business. The loss of parking at Dutchman Sno-Park would prohibit early and late season riding reducing riding season by 2 or 3 months on average snow fall years.
The Moon country Board of Directors has voted to support the building of Kapka Butte Sno-Park AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT ALTER THE CURRENT YEAR ROUND PARKING AVAILABILITY AT DUTCHMAN SNO-PARK AND ALL AREAS ACCESSING THE HIGH COUNTRY ARE LEFT OPEN FOR MOTORIZED USE. Any proposals reducing motorized accessibility from Dutchman Sno-Park and surrounding areas will not be supported. This area is open to all modes of recreation and has operated like this for years. It must remain unchanged.
A deep appreciation goes out to all who have become involved supporting keeping open access to our present motorized areas. The opposition is as determined to close off areas to all users and others as we are committed to keep it open. We must be diligent on "our watch" to see they don't gain any more area closures in the public forest. The Forest Service is delaying putting out the EA (Environmental Assessment) until Spring or Summer of '09 if my information is correct. It was originally scheduled for release presently but is now being reconsidered until next year. Standard procedure for EA's is after it is released by the Forest Service, there is a 30-day comment period were the public is asked for comment on the proposed piece. This is a very important time to let the Forest Service know what you think of the EA proposal, positive and negative with comment for improvements. After the 30 day, there is a 45-day time period for the Forest Service to assess all the comments to come up with a comprehensive plan. So serious attention needs to be paid so when the EA is forthcoming, everyone will be on board with his or her letters and comments. We will keep you posted.
Until the EA is published it is still essential for all recreational enthusiasts to submit comments to the Forest Service, local, county and state/federal officials, the tourist industry supporting the continued "Multi-Use" scenario of this area. The "Anti-Access" groups will be doing the same so there MUST be an onslaught of support to counter any of the claims for no access they make.
Feel free to contact any Board Member for information.
The Moon Country Sno-Mobilers Board of Directors
Larry Riser, President
Russell Reid, Vice-President
Susie Fagen-Wirges, Secretary
Barbara Bosy, Treasurer
Chuck Tolboe, Member at Large
Toby Garus, Member at Large
Dave Lynn, Member at Large
Jan Pittman, Member at Large
Forest Service
Marv Lang
melang@fs.fed.us
Senator Wyden's Office
Website - http://www.wyden.senate.gov/contact
Senator Gordon Smith
Website - http://gsmith.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home
Congressman Greg Walden
Website - http://walden.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactGreg.Home
Representative Chuck Burley District 54 - Deschutes Forest Province Advisory Committee Member
Website - http://www.leg.state.or.us/burley/
SAWS http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/
REMEMBER WHEN YOU VOTE THIS NOVEMBER........ TO CAST YOUR BALLOT FOR PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT OPEN ACCESS TO THE FOREST FOR EVERYBODY.
It would be appreciated if any letters sent could be blind copied to Larry Riser at lriser5000@cs.com He will keep hard copies on file for future reference.
If you have anyone you would like added to this list please let us know and we will take care of it.
Bend Bulletin 10/1/2008
With the first snows of the season probably in the next couple of months, some changes are on the way for the sno-parks along the Cascade Lakes Highway.
At two of the existing sno-parks, the U.S. Forest Service and the Tumalo Langlauf nordic skiing club are working on projects to add facilities for skiers and sledders. The parking lot at Virginia Meissner Sno-park is set to more than double in size, and construction is under way for a shelter looking out onto the sledding hill at the Wanoga Snoplay Area.
And the U.S. Forest Service is planning to start a second environmental study to look at a proposed sno-park designed for snowmobilers along the highway west of Bend.
The proposed Kapka Butte sno-park is designed to ease the parking pressure at Dutchman Flat Sno-park near Mt. Bachelor, said John Allen, Deschutes National Forest supervisor.
“Most people recognize we have a winter recreation issue now,” Allen said. “We’re trying to be responsive to recreationalists’ needs and demands.”
The idea for the Kapka Butte sno-park stems from the Dutchman Summit, a meeting the Forest Service held in 2004 with skiers, snowmobilers and others to take a look at what could be done to minimize conflicts between different kinds of recreation in the area, said Bob Deane with the Deschutes National Forest.
“With more and more people moving to Central Oregon, primarily for the recreation opportunities, and a limited geographic landscape that has snow conditions and can accommodate winter recreation, we’re going to be faced with increasing potential for conflicts between users,” Deane said.
The agency started an environmental assessment for the Kapka Butte sno-park in 2004, but it got held up because of a lack of funding for the studies as well as controversy over the proposal, Deane said.
For Dale Neubauer of Wild Wilderness, one of the concerns is that the new sno-park, which could have 50 or 70 parking spots, would draw more snowmobilers to the area. And the Forest Service doesn’t have a plan in place to deal with the jump in numbers, he said.
“That’s not an alternative parking lot,” he said of the proposal. “That’s a massive expansion.”
And adding snowmobilers in that area could displace snowshoers who use Kapka Butte now or crowd out backcountry skiers who go to the Tumalo Mountain area to be free of groomed trails, warming shelters and lots of people. So Wild Wilderness is proposing that the Forest Service designate Tumalo Mountain a backcountry recreation zone, turning it off-limits to snowmobilers.
“If the Forest Service is going to improve recreation for snowmobilers, if it improves recreation for the skate skiers (at Meissner), why not demand improved recreation for the backcountry skiers?” he said.
But Peggy Spieger, executive director of the Oregon State Snowmobile Association, says she doesn’t think adding a sno-park will lead to more use, since there’s a shortage of parking for the snowmobilers who drive up the Cascade Lakes Highway now.
“There’s so many visitors to this area on the weekends that it’s difficult for anyone, including the locals, to find a place to park,” she said. “We definitely think it’s necessary to accommodate the use that already exists on the forest now.”
The Forest Service is planning to start a new scoping period this fall for Kapka Butte, Deane said, but this time it’s doing a more intensive environmental study called an environmental impact statement. The reason for the switch is so the agency can focus the study just on the Dutchman overcrowding, he said. Also, the new process makes the proposal more supportable to legal challenges, he said, although it does push possible construction back to summer 2010.
The expansion at Virginia Meissner Sno-park started this fall, however, and by the winter there should be almost 120 parking spots at the popular cross-country skiing site — compared with 53 before, said Tim Gibbons with the Tumalo Langlauf Club, which has pushed for and funded much of the project.
“I think this is going to be a big plus for the community,” he said.
And the club has added 6.5 miles of new trails, and plans to add 1.3 more next summer, all designed to give beginners and intermediate skiers different terrain or challenges.
“We’re getting off the roads that were designed for logging and fire suppression,” he said. “These are designed for skiing.”
Meissner also has a new warming shelter, which was constructed this summer.
And just up the road from Meissner, crews are putting in a new shelter at the Wanoga Snoplay Area, which opened to sledders last winter.
The new shelter is about the size of the shelter that snowmobilers use at the Wanoga Sno-park but has a unique design, Deane said.
“It’s designed so that people in the shelter can look out on the sledding hill,” he said.
From an email recevied last week:
Snowmobilers;
This is an update on the Kapka Butte / Dutchman Sno-Park Issue we have been working on for many months. There is some confusion on the issues because the Forest Service has changed direction on the original proposal. You may have herd that there are Rumors on the internet about these issues. We have never seen any written rumors or mistruths printed anywhere. If you have some please let us know and we will deal with them.
Here is what is fact as of 10/15/2008. At our first general meeting of 2008 a representative with the Forest Service attended to award Moon Country a nice plaque for recognition of the fine work at the shelter at Wanoga. We asked him to bring us up to date on the Kapka / Dutchman issue. Here is what he told us.
1. The Forest Service has changed the review process from an EA study to a EIS study.
a. EA (Environmental Assessment) none formal locally done steady. The EA leaves more room for debate from those who oppose the action.
b. EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) Very formal study, filed with the federal government. The Forest Service recognizes there could be a battle pursuing and the EIS better covers the issues.
2. The plan to close access to Dutchman Sno-Park is still in the EIS. What they are proposing is to let everyone but snowmobilers use the parking area from December 1st to March 30th. (This is the weak link in the entire program and Discriminates against snowmobilers only)
The preliminary EIS filing document should have been out this week. So far we I have not seen anything pertaining to the EIS.
Something to think about: The Board Members of Moon Country Snowmobile Club all agreed that we would not support any plan that limited the parking or made any changes to Dutchman Sno-Park parking in anyway. Dutchman Sno-Park has to be excluded from the Kapka Proposal or we will vote to abandon the entire Kapka project.
We built Dutchman and have shared it with all users for many years. Why should we give it to the backcountry skiers just so they do not have to park at Mount Bachelor? They have trails from Mount Bachelor parking lots......we do not. They would get charged to park and would rather park in Dutchman for free. Again it is pure discrimination to block only snowmobilers out of this Public Parking Area.
Elk Lake Resort uses Dutchman Sno-Park for parking, access for patterns, supply deliveries, snow cat access and general access for day to day business have said they will be forced to close for the winter if access is blocked at Dutchman Sno-Park. Think about all the other businesses that will be affected.
3. Two parts of the original EA have been deleted from the EIS according to the forest Service representative.
a. A warming shelter has been deleted.
b. There was a new trail "Kwolh / Elk Lake Trail " that was going to try to make access to Elk Lake through the Road Less area. Also Deleted
The new Kapka Butte Sno-Park will be a marginal improvement to the area. Due to it's low elevation it will only be a plus in the Mid Season. We will have to go down in elevation to get the Lamberts Crossing to get under the highway to get to trail 5 to go back up to Dutchman Flats area. This will only server for a few months a year. We cannot give up any access to Dutchman Sno-Park. It is our best access to the high country snow and for many months is the only access to the early and late snow. Also for those who do not want to ride fifteen miles of rough trails to get to the Cascade Lakes Highway will still want to use Dutchman Sno-Park. This is where the December 1st to March 30th idea came into play. Sadly we know from past experience if we give in now we will loose it completely in the near future.
This is a very complex issue and a lot of people have spent a lot of time working to save the parking and riding area we have. Please help by writing letters to the list below. Yes the list is long, however it is important we get the word out. Short and to the point letters are best. Tell them we must keep Dutchman Sno-Park open to all users, all year long, at all cost. If you need some ideas on letter writing we will be happy to provide any information we have.
I personally have been writing one letter and sending it to all the people the list "CC" via email. Several, I have to cut and paste and insert them on their web sites. Again if you have any questions we will be happy to help. Letters will make the powers to be listen. If we make enough racket they will do what we ask. It's up to us if we want to save what we have.
Please remember to send a copy of all emails or letters to Larry Riser (Moon Country Snowmobile Club) He will save a copy to verify that our letters do not get lost in the shuffle.
LRISER5000@CS.COM
Senator Wyden's Office
Website - http://www.wyden.senate.gov/contact (send via website)
Senator Gordon Smith
Website - http://gsmith.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home (send via website)
Congressman Greg Walden
Website - http://walden.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactGreg.Home (send via website)
Representative Chuck Burley District 54 - Deschutes Forest Province Advisory Committee Member
Burley.Rep@state.or.us;
Senator Ben Westlund
Capitol Phone: 503-986-1727
Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE., S-318, Salem, OR, 97301
Email: sen.benwestlund@state.or.us
Website: http://www.leg.state.or.us/westlund
Carbon Copy everyone below this line with the letter sent to the above contacts.
Main Offices US Forest Service
US Forest Service
State and Private Forestry
1400 Independence Ave., SW
Washington, D.C. 20250-0003
(202) 205-1657
US Forest Service - Pacific Northwest Region
333 SW First Avenue, Portland, Oregon 97204-3440;
P.O. Box 3623, Portland, OR 97208-3623
Phone: 503-808-2468
US Forest Service
Marv Lang & John Allen & Shane Jeffries
Bend Fort Rock Ranger District
1001 SW Emkay Drive
Bend, OR 97702
(541) 383-5300
Red Oak Square fax 541-383-4700
Emkay fax 541-383-5531
Sisters Deschutes National Forest fax 541-549-7746
Crescent Deschutes National Forest fax 541-433-3224
melang@fs.fed.us
jpallen@fs.fed.us
sjeffries@fs.fed.us
Deschutes County Commissioners
Tammy Melton, tammy_baney@deschutes.org
Dennis Luke, dennis_luke@co.deschutes.or.us
Mike Daly, mikeda@co.deschutes.or.us
Bend City Council
Linda Johnson, ljohnson@ci.bend.or.us
Mark Capell, mcapell@ci.bend.or.us
Chris Telfer, ctelfer@ci.bend.or.us
Peter Gramlich, pgramlich@ci.bend.or.us
Bill Friedman, bfriedman@ci.bend.or.us
Mayor Bruce Abernethy, babernethy@ci.bend.or.us
LaPine City Counsel
Mayor, Stu Martinez, smartinez@ci.la-pine.or.us
Katherine Shields, kshields@ci.la-pine.or.us
Ginny Woodruff, gwoodruff@ci.la-pine.or.us
Robert Dee, rdee@ci.la-pine.or.us
Redmond City Counsel
http://www.ci.redmond.or.us/internet/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253&Itemid=313
Prineville City Counsel
Mike Wendel
mwendel@cityofprineville.com
Jack Seley
council@cityofprineville.com
Stephen Uffelman
suffelman@cityofprineville.com
Dean Noyes
dnoyes@cityofprineville.com
Gordon Gillespie
ggillespie@cityofprineville.com
Betty Roppe
broppe@cityofprineville.com
Steve Ilk
silk@cityofprineville.com
Sisters City Counsel
Mayor - Brad Boyd
Email: bboyd@ci.sisters.or.us
Phone: 541-549-2471
Council President - Bill Merrill
Email: bmerrill@ci.sisters.or.us
Phone: 541-549-7378
Councilor - Lon Kellstrom
Email: lkellstrom@ci.sisters.or.us
Phone; 541-549-9975
Councilor - Shawna Bell
Email: sbell@ci.sisters.or.us
Phone: 541-549-0316
Councilor - Sharlene Weed
Email: sweed@ci.sisters.or.us
Phone: 541-549-1193
No mention of H2Oregon....Where's the love : )
From an email received 11/24/2008:
Hello Snowmobilers;
The Forest Service will be releasing an Environmental Impact Statement in a few weeks regarding the building of an additional sno-park at the intersection of Century Drive and FS Road 46 to Sunriver called “Kapka Butte Sno-Park”. The original plan was for a 70 space parking lot with a shelter. This plan has gone through many revisions and until the EIS comes out, we are not sure what it encompasses at this point.
An EIS scoping letter will be released that will explain the entire project. At this time we will have a 30 day period to voice our approval or opposition to the new plan. It is so important for ALL OF US to simply write a letter to the Forest Service and let them know what we think. If we do not write, the environmentalists will win once again. Form letters are not accepted so each concerned citizen needs to write in their own words what they want for a sno-park, picking out which parts of the EIS plan will work and which parts they don’t think will work. Remarks should be kept to supporting the plan, or giving positive alternatives to the plan.
The purpose of the whole project is to provide more parking along the Century Drive Corridor. The location of this parking is the most crucial point. There needs to be adequate parking at the current Dutchman Sno-Park area. This provides all season access for snowmobilers, adequate parking for Elk Lake Lodge visitors and easy access for the non-motorized users to their destinations.
Though the Kapka Butte location will provide additional parking spots, it does not satisfy the other requirements of all season access, Elk Lake visitor access or the easy access for skiers. For this reason it is most practical to expand the present Dutchman parking lot instead of building a lot at the Kapka Butte location. This plan will benefit ALL winter recreationists to a much higher degree and is most satisfying to Elk Lake Resort and Mt. Bachelor. If the EIS does not come out with a minimum of 70 spots for snowmobile parking with additional spots for skiers it would not be adequate for the needed parking necessary for a destination recreational use area.
The expansion of Dutchman will met with A LOT of opposition from strict environmentalists, such as Dale Neubauer. In order for this plan to come into fruition we (supporters of expanding Dutchman) MUST show as much solidarity as the environmentalists do. That means action on everyone’s part to write letters to the Forest Service. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR RIDING AREAS OPEN, EVERYONE MUST PARTICIPATE.
The majority of non-motorized users support snowmobilers. There are many “cross-over” recreationalists that ski and ride. The main opponents are a small minority that want everything closed regardless of the mode of use. To date we have lost half of Tumalo Mountain, most of Dutchman flats area, and are fighting to save the other half of Tumalo Mountain. Tumalo Backcountry Recreation Zone proposal is calling for complete closure of Tumalo Mtn. and Trail 7. There is no current discussion for this action by the Forest Service but the group behind this proposal has been very effective in the past, so there is anticipation that a confrontation will develop.
Please do not think your letter won't matter. This just maybe the most important action we can take this year to save our riding area. Remember to state in your letters that we do need more parking, and Dutchman Snow Park would be the best plan for the future of all winter users.
If you want some more assistance with letter writing ideas please feel free to email. We will do all we can to help.
We have many people working on this issue inside and outside of the club environment. We all owe a lot of people a big Thank You for all there efforts to save our area from the chopping block.
Dutchman Task Force
Moon Country Sno-mobile Club
Oregon State Snowmobile Association
SAWS
Elk Lake Resort
Mount Bachelor
Bend Kit Crew
Cascade Motor Sports
Pro Caliber Motor Sports
Red Carpet Car Wash
Deschutes County 4 Wheelers
Chuck Burley
Marv Lang, John Allen and the staff with the Forest Service
Sorry if I did not get your name on the list....There are so many great people helping in all areas.
Ben is correct.....I some how forgot to put H2Oregon on my supporters list. Sorry. H2 and all it's members have been a huge help all the way through our ordeal.
Sorry Ben. You are the best.
Dave / DTF
Hello Everyone;
Sorry for the long delay between updates. The wheels of the government turn real slow. We are still working with the FS every month to try to stay on top of the situation.
We reviewed all the comment letters sent into the FS on the first comment period and it looks to be +/- 50 - 50. Our friends are going to be pushing hard to close Dutchman. They want the Tumalo area closed to motorized use and Dutchman is the first step.
We have a TUG meeting with the FS tonight (5/12/09), we will keep you informed of any changes.
The second comment period is coming soon. Being the summer we have to be careful we don't get caught in the sun shine and forget about the upcoming season.
More to come soon. Thanks again for everyone's support.
DTF
Thanks for the update.
Come on, everyone, if we ALL write our representatives, they WILL heed our voice. The other side represents a MINORITY of the people, but because they are well organized and participate, they get what they want! We have to play the game THEIR way, which means being vocal and letting our representatives know what WE want! Being polite and respectful but getting the point across pays BIG dividends too!
I attended the TUG (trail user group) meeting last evening with the Forest Service. Our friends the backcountry skiers had their head rep at the meeting with copies of all the letters that came in during the comment period. You can only imagine there interpretation of the letters were 75% against Kapka and motorized use and 20% in favor and 5% not sure.
The FS pretty much said Kapka was going to be built regardless. The opposition said they would take the FS to court if they proceed and the FS said bring it on. I guess this is a good sign.
I personally will still stick to my guns that Kapka at (5800 ft) is a bad plan and in a bad location. If you look at the intersection of highway 46 and highway 45 you will see it is going to be a real mess to get long trailers through two stop signs (within 50 ft of each other) and a left turn across traffic coming from Sun River. I hope it doesn't result in any serious accidents to get the powers at be to realize the problem. Yes we do need parking, but it should be at Dutchman at (6500 ft) and at the location where everyone really wants to be anyway. There are plans already submitted to the FS for an expansion of Dutchman but they have been tabled due to our green friends blocking the way.
Please keep your eyes open on these posts. In July the second comment period will arrive and we will need all of you to write letters again on the narrowed scope. Even if they build Kapka we still need to stay involved. Your input is more important than you can imagine.
Thanks again for everyone's support. Especially H2Oregon.
Dutchman Task Force
clutch man
06-04-10, 05:56 PM
Now The FS is going to put a 22 foot length restriction for parking in Dutchman Sno-park. Plus they wont to move trail 7 down the road where the trees are so that the skiers will have all of Dutchman. we need to let the FS know that we will not stand for this. TUG MEETING JUNE 8TH AT 6PM. HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE AT THE RED OAK SQUARE. make sure the FS does not do this.:mad:
clutch man
06-09-10, 03:03 PM
It looks like the FS may back off on the trail 7 move. But our sticking to the 22 ft length in the parking lot when Kapka is built.
The part that bothered me the most and Shane said it more than once, with us getting a new big snow park the other user groups are pushing them to close Dutchmen to all motorized use. We can not let this happen. IMO so this does not happen we have to stop Kapka from being built. THERE WILL BE NO NEED TO HAVE A NEW SNOW PARK IF WE LOSE THE UPPER RIDING AREA.
We will be better off to stay the way it is now.
Oregongirl
06-09-10, 05:46 PM
Someone said to me in the past, that opposing Kapka over the closing of Dutchman is throwing out the baby with the bath water. :eek: However, I disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with that idea. I think it's the other way around. If you are putting some of the best riding areas at risk of closure for sixty more parking spots.....well, where is the baby and the bath water now? Dutchman remaining motorized - year round - is a key anchor. It's their tipping point indicator. We can't let that happen.
Besides - if there are already so many "user conflicts" in this area then why are they considering more parking spaces anyway. That will only bring more people to an already congested area. That is my personal opinion - not a SAWS position statement. Seems that management of an area can be controlled, in part, by ease or limitation of access. Oh wait....it's all coming together now!! DUH!! They are limiting access - OURS!!! :mad:
make dutchmans motorized only and give the skiers kapka.
clutch man
06-09-10, 08:53 PM
Moon I like your idea.
seems fair since they took swampy lakes,meissner,vista butte,half of tumalo,most of dutchmans flat area,todd lake,macarthers rim,sledding hill,dog area ect.. from us.and the skiers have lost nothing.but the selfish wacko extremists want more,more,more and the FS keeps threatening.what a freakin joke.
clutch man
06-11-10, 05:49 PM
The bottom line here When Kapka is built we will lose Dutchman parking lot and then Tumalo too. Dutchman you can park 26 truck and trailers in there. So we are going to get a parking lot now down sized to 50 rigs and trailers. That is only a net gain of 23 rigs. So far as i can see it is not worth it at all for what we will lose. OSSA needs to step up and not support Kapka like they said the would if there is any change in Dutchman parking lot.
A 22foot length change is a change and not lettings any snowmobiles in the parking lot mid season is a change. OSSA needs to do what they said they would do. We need to stop Kapka.:D
Oregongirl
06-14-10, 09:02 AM
Go to this thread (http://www.sledspace.com/showthread.php?p=9955#post9955)to see all the SAWS Alerts on the subject of Tumalo, Dutchman and Kapka Butte Sno-park.
SAWS has been opposed to any and all changes, in restrictions and limitations, to Dutchman, since the beginning (SAWS was created in 2004). :cool:
Our next Alert, once the comment period opens on Kapka, won't be much different than all the previous Alerts we've published in this subject. In short, any changes to the current useage of Dutchman, is not acceptable.
clutch man
06-23-10, 08:28 AM
We all need to write the state association and tell them not to support Kapka!
They need to hear from everyone.
John Vogel OSSA President jvogel@oregonsnow.org
Peggy Speiger OSSA Executive Director pspieger@oregonsnow.org
Please write to them and let your options be known.
It has to worth a try. I'm in. We can only hope they see the big picture.
Everyone:
It would appear that the FS needs to have comments sent in on the EIS when it comes out. Since there are a large amount of snowmobile owners who do NOT belong to OSSA, how do we get them the information and have them send in there comments ? The larger the amount of comments submitted the more likely they will be noticed. Anyone have any ideas on how to get the non affiliated snowmobile community's attention ?
clutch man
06-26-10, 06:18 AM
Everyone:
It would appear that the FS needs to have comments sent in on the EIS when it comes out. Since there are a large amount of snowmobile owners who do NOT belong to OSSA, how do we get them the information and have them send in there comments ? The larger the amount of comments submitted the more likely they will be noticed. Anyone have any ideas on how to get the non affiliated snowmobile community's attention ?
Van
I think you may be missing the point a bit. It is not that OSSA is the only dog in the fight. But let OSSA know just how all us snowmoliler's know what is best for Snowmobiling. If we do not let OSSA know they will keep working for Kapka and that is the wrong way to go. we also need to write to the FS and to your congressmen.;)
I think you are correct about SAWS. When the EIS is posted on the FS website or is officially put to the public then SAWS will react. I feel it is our job to get the info out to make sure that as many snowmobilers and motorized users are aware that this is coming. With it being summer it will be a big job to get the message out. Also we should be sending letters to OSSA, Salem, Wash. DC and anyewhere else were we can get someone to listen. It's our area and we have to fight to keep it the way we want it.
The SAWS reps in Oregon and are great people who really do work hard for us. I have full faith in them to do everything that can be done on their end to help. I am sure it's all about money and like what was posted before we may have to reach in and help if we want something different.
If we look at what the FS is wasting our money on in the Bend Area....ie the new $900,000.00 parking lot that will only get used a few months a year (what if they would have put this at Dutchman and saved a half a million dollars and solved two problems), $500,000.00 on a "study" on how to get us all on public transportation to go to the mountain, building a entire new parking lot(Kapka) were there is very little interest. Isn't it sad with so many people in this area out of work and loosing their homes that the FS/Dept of Aig would waste such a large amounts of money. It's time for them to wake up and remember who they really work for.
Thanks for being involved.
I hope I am not breaking any rules by posting this info in this area. It was brought to my attention by VAN on the other forum that folks are upset with all the FS wasteful spending habits. This could be our way to salvation on Kapka. It is just another waste of money that needs to be trimmed. Put a few bucks into Dutchman and all these big dollar projects can be all rolled into one neat package for pennies on the dollar.
I had Van rescan the clips for us to make the files fit this forum. Or read the Bend Bulletin Sunday 6/27 Business section.
Meetings still going on over Welcome Center. It looks like it will be constructed but non motorized groups are trying to get the FS to make it a usable parking area for the local public also. This might be a problem due to the fact the funds come from the Scenic Highway fund. Guess that means it is not real money that is still our tax dollars. Feel free to contact Shane Jefferies with the FS and let him know what you think about this project and Kapka Butte Snow park.
After Kapka is built they are planning on putting a 22' length restriction on parking at Dutchman and moving trail 7 completely off the flats. We will be officially off Dutchman flats as soon as Kapka is built. I hope you feel the same as many others do about this crime that is about to happen.
The comment period for the EIS should be coming out any day now. It's OK to write more than one letter to the FS. Thanks for your support.
Shane Jeffries
District Ranger
Bend/Fort Rock RD, Deschutes NF
Phone: (541) 383-4760
Fax: (541) 383-4700
email: sjeffries@fs.fed.us
clutch man
08-01-10, 07:56 AM
the EIS should be out any day now Get ready to write letters.
here is a letter to the local news paper.
clutch man
08-03-10, 05:40 AM
This is a quote from Marv Lang from the FS
We have run into a slight snag with the RO and need some final advice before we have in house review and out to public. Reality is on the street in September now. Marv
This is for the EIS on Kapka
WE NOW HAVE MORE TIME TO STOP THIS FROM BEING BUILT