View Full Version : snowmobiles get new closed areas and xc skiers dont get forest trail lights.
thats fair,right?
http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=8164199
I saw nothing in the news article or the environmental impact analysis about Snowmobiles..this must be a ski only park? What is the closed area you are referring to?
Another thought ..It is scary how much power one Forest Ranger has.
Another article on this ski/snowshoe only sno-park expansion.
Ben
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080415/NEWS0107/804150402/1001/NEWS01&nav_category=
To an outsider I still don't see this as a bad thing, and no mention of snowmobiles closed out of area's either in the articles or the Rangers EA. It would appear to draw non-motorized recreation from multi-use parks.
Is the Snowmobile growth being addressed by future plans? Moon, by the thread title and post, seems very fed up with USFS projects in the area. There must be something going on against snowmobilers in another area?
What is the closed area you are referring to?
the newest,this year,is east of wanoga is closed.and adding skiers with dogs on sled trails. the xc skiers love the groomed snowmobile trails like bees on honey.most dont like skiing the areas that are closed for them.i guess powder is no fun.
also,to name a few that have been closed to motorized are half of tumalo mtn,most of dutchmans flat,east of todd lake,winter elk area west of inn of the 7th mountain,vista butte,swampy lakes,meissner area,mcarthers rim,south of edison snowpark.thousands and thousans of acres closed.plus they want more.its time to get involved,now.before its all gone!
Now that stinks. One sport grows the other shrinks, are the snowmobilers shrinking in number in bend? Are there plans, meetings with the Ranger, Non-profit volunteer free TV adds that show the good of the club(s) and dig at the plight? Public Protests..news invited, Any handicapped snowmobilers that used to ski..willing to talk to news reporters. Make it news worthy and reporters love you. Get to know the publications person in the forest service. Take the recreation officer out on the cat. Talk plans for expansion with the grant writer-project planner.
Fight smart..let us know when large gatherings are needed, some will show! Look at other projects and plans, try to fit them in your area.
its really hard when the snowmobilers and clubs cant even agree on what should be done.if they build kapka sledpark.everybody can kiss dutchmans snowpark goodbuy and a big loss for sledders.and for supporting a larger skier snowpark,meisner...no way!.skiers have 6 snowparks and mt bachelor parking lots in the area.sledders have 3.
In my opinion:
This isn't about cross country vs snowmobilers. In the Mount Bachelor area, Moon Country Snowmobile club and OSSA have been working with the cross country clubs to develop a positive relationship with them. We all have a common enemy that feels there should be know one at all in the forests. In the past things where very different. We all need to work together with all outdoor sports enthusiast and get a common direction and goal.
The only way this will get accomplished is to get as many people as possible involved in OSSA, SAWS, and information forums like H2Oregon. With as many snowmobiles as there registered in Oregon we have a very small representation when it comes to being organized as a group. We all need to talk to everyone who rides Snowmobiles, ATV's, Motor cycles or even those who just want to have access to OUR forest lands about this challenge and get as many people as possible involved. It's very easy to say "Oh well someone else will deal with it".
Moon Country and OSSA are working with the forest service on a continual basses. We have made some great headway, however dealing with the government is a slow, time consuming project.
Dutchman snow park has been a work in process and know one wants to see it change. However the mixed use area had to get some kind of controls put in place. It only takes one person on a sled to do mach 2 across the flats and 911 would get 15 calls.
I am not personally responsible for any of the efforts put forth by Moon Country and OSSA. I am a member of both organization and am going to be part of SAWS very soon. Information is key to our success in my small opinion. As a collective force we should be able to fight back against those who would like to see the forest closed to all except a very few.
Keep up all the great comments on this forum and lets all personally do something this year to become more involved with the organizations who are supporting us all.
"However the mixed use area had to get some kind of controls put in place. It only takes one person on a sled to do mach 2 across the flats and 911 would get 15 calls."
i 100% disagree.
I guess I do not understand what you disagree with?
We had an "activist" group from bend area bring ATV's in and ride a closed area, load up , leave and turn our group in to the OSP. We showed the officer where the tracks went back to the empty camp. When they were leaving we didn't think anything of it, but noticed a bend business truck towing one of the trailers. These activist groups will do anything to get your sport in trouble. Then they get outdoor groups fighting each other. 911 calls, police reports and pictures provided to news groups..they probably rented the machines for the stunt, walking their tracks it was obvious none of them were riders. Never accept the "mach across the flats" from someone in a meeting without a retort. The 911 calls were from a group that all knew each other, they set it up? As snowmobilers we are the head of the nail when the hammer swings..we can't afford to make concessions..we gave up all the current wilderness, let the other groups do the conceding, they will never catch up to what we have lost. PERIOD!
I can understand what you are talking about. Motorized sports people will always be a target. There are a few morons within any group that garner the lions share of the attention. It's not right or is it fare however when we as a group see strange things happen we need to act. Get license numbers or take photos. It's more important than ever to police ourselves.
The few people who used to run across Dutchman at a high rate of speed where not breaking the law. It was not posted for speed. However it created a questionable situation when skiers and sleds mixed.
Dutchman has always just been a transition area to the trails or the Cascade Lake Hwy. Now it has some controls to put skiers in their area and sleds in there area. It's more of a case of to many people in a small area. I spend a lot of time riding in the Bachelor area and once in a while I see people doing dumb things. I have no problem going and talking to the people and just let them know that they are riding in a closed area or there is a speed limit in that specific area or what ever the case maybe. I have never had anyone flip me garbage back. They always where just people who just did not know the rules (Brand New Riders Mostly). I have also seen people in the parking lots running WOT with kids, dogs, other riders all walking around. Stuff happens. Sadly those few situations are the ones that we all hear about when the newspaper does an article
We all have to work together to protect ourselves from ourselves. Thousands of good rides are always over shadowed by one Dumb A**. It is great to have this message board to be able to post out thoughts and experiences on. I hope any of my comments don't come across as some kind of expert.....I am not.......I am just an person with an opinion to keep the discussion going. The more we talk about the more aware others may become and the more people will get involved.
Thanks for looking at my opinion.
i just dont think dutchmans needed controlled.you have a couple skiers climb tumalo and a few ski to todd lake and thats it.its a waste to close all that land for nonmotorized use only and now,nobody uses it.ive been riding the area for over 40 years and never seen the flat crowded or congested.that was a just a bunch of bs put on the fs to close more riding areas.there is only,maybe 10 parking spots for skiers and 10 for sledders there!but with all the effort from the selfish wilderness club and xc skiers,they stopped the snowpark expansion that was proposed a few years ago and ended up closing thousands of acres for snowmobiling.everybody really does need to join SAWS (http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/)and get involved before its all gone.jmo
I agree with you Moon.
We all need to get involved with OSSA and SAWS. It's our only hope to prevent total loss. The problem is that the Wilderness people have a large group of financial supporters and we only have a few that join our organizations (SAWS, OSSA, Blue Ribbon) All these groups are fighting the legal action battle all the time and if people are not involved they don't even know it is going on.
I appreciate your comments and I do think this type of communication is very helpful to get the word out to others. We all have to work together even if we do not totally agree with each other on every item. It's the big picture that is important.
Thanks for your comments and I hope we can keep the conversation going.
here are some quotes from another website......
"I am a local club Pres. I started preaching at meetings last Nov about how people needed to get involved. I went to businesses, and to the riders themselves. When it came time to write a simple letter to the USFS regarding an impending closure, I was able to get 7 out of 75 club members to write letters. So in CO we have 20,000 registered snowmobiles, 2000 in the state club and even with LOTS of prodding I was able to get less than 10% to try and save their own riding areas. FREAKING PATHETIC
We were up against a couple dozen actual skiers that use the terrain. They banded together and came up with hundreds of letters. People that don't even use the areas in question. THAT is how we are getting creamed."
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"It would not matter if you had a solar powered snowmobile that sprayed pure spring water and spewed pure oxygen as you rode it, they do not want you out there period end of story, you are tracking up their snow and breathing their air and they will not stop until you quit doing it !!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Moon
You hit the nail right on the head. This is why it is so important for people like us to keep up the conversations on this matter.
We contacted Phil Cruse our district ranger and asked him if we could email letters to him regarding one of our local issues. He agreed and we got more email letters sent than they had ever received from the snowmobile crowd. Our mission has to be just to get people involved even if it excludes the club portion. Just the monitory help and hopefully receiving information will turn one more persons in our direction.
When we have to sell our snowmobiles for little green hiking shoes and granola bars we will have know one to blame but our selves. However this will be just like all issues like this....people like us will do all we can to save the sport from the save the earth crowd. Please keep in mind that I am not talking bad about x country skiers......they are fighting the expansion battles also.....we have a common enemy that is bigger than both of us.
Just another opinion.
looks like the xc skiers are not happy with there new bigger snowpark.now they want to take away even more snowmobiling.that doesnt surprise me.